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Post by reiphil on Jul 26, 2011 10:48:57 GMT -8
Hey guys. I am going to start rewriting the adventure. Hopefully I can create a super adventure out of it, or at least a campaign world to be enjoyed by you guys. I have no plans on currently running it yet, but am rewriting the pages on the original site, sites.google.com/site/thesunderedworld/ . Do you guys have any suggestions or interests in seeing this world recreated? If one of the sunday DMs gets tired, and the campaign is ready, i'll be happy to run it some day. All of your suggestions will be taken into account. So please post any questions or clarifications or things I should expand on in the site.
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Post by kore on Jul 27, 2011 13:51:05 GMT -8
Unless it is David's game that were to end, I wouldn't be able to play. But I won't let that stop me from commenting.
As far as the world was concerned, from the few times we gathered to play, I liked it. It was fun being one of the individuals infected by the Iron Plague. Durnalla will crush you.
One gaming mechanic I would like to see implemented in a campaign in which I participate is inherent bonuses. I know Dark Sun uses it because of the rarity of magic items, but I would like to see it used such that my level 7 +2 Vicious Weapon becomes a +3 Vicious Weapon when I reach level 12, thus keeping the pool from which I might select enchantments intact without the hunt for my next upgrade being one of the things of which I might occupy myself, unless there is a different enchantment I might want that is available only at higher levels. Magic items that don't provide enhancement bonuses would make up the majority of treasure the DM distributes, however frequent or infrequent that may be.
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Post by reiphil on Jul 29, 2011 6:13:02 GMT -8
I like the idea, but at the same time, doesn't it sort of negate your want or need for upgraded weapons/armor?
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Post by kore on Jul 29, 2011 12:03:43 GMT -8
I like the idea, but at the same time, doesn't it sort of negate your want or need for upgraded weapons/armor? It would negate the need, definitely, but not necessarily the want to upgrade. But that's the point, eliminating the need and making upgrades optional. If all I ever "need" to use is a Vicious Weapon, based upon my own opinion that it is the end-all-be-all of enchantments, I'd be quite content in knowing that at levels 12, 17, 22, and 27 I'd be getting a sweet upgrade to the weapon enchantment I plan on using from level 1 to 30. On the other hand, perhaps the Vicious enchantment is just my favored enchantment until the Dancing Weapon, having a bonus no lower than +4 at level 20, becomes a reasonable item for a wish list. Thus, I use a Vicious Weapon from levels 1 through 16-ish until the Dancing Weapon becomes more feasible. It's still nice to have a scaling enchantment, but I would still be looking forward to getting the enchantment that I really want. It also depends on what an individual finds fun when playing D&D. I like the story and combat encounters, as well as puzzles. Others may like finding treasure most of all. For me, finding a cool magic item is fun, but having my magic items become obsolete seems lame. What if I want to play a character who owns a magical family heirloom with a story and destiny behind it? I would like to be able to continue to use it throughout the life of the character to demonstrate it's importance, not only to the character, but its own efficacy in combat. I would hate that it should become/seem useless, such that it ends up in my bag of holding, gathering dust: Oh, that thing? Why do I still have it? It's been in my family for centuries and has been wielded by many great leaders. It was handed to me by my father, on his death-bed. He told me that the one that wields it is destined for greatness. Why aren't I using it? Because it's only a +1 and I'd be more likely to get myself and the party killed it I took that thing to battle against Orcus, screw that! Are you crazy?
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Post by reiphil on Jul 29, 2011 19:30:22 GMT -8
I utterly agree with the whole family heirloom stuff. How many times have you went with your father's sword only to toss it?
I think for Karnth, I may introduce the inherent bonuses and make a kind of "slotted" enhancements (IE at any point in time, you could have a gem or jewel representing the vicious enchant for weapons or dwarven enchant for armor). These slotted enhancements would only work for weapons of the type.
However it means I'd have to literally pick through all of the enchants and redo the levels of them so taht there are limited options per level so that, perhaps you couldn't obtain a vicious jewel or find one until lvl 10~. What do you say to something of that system?
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Post by kore on Aug 2, 2011 10:40:29 GMT -8
I would avoid having to revamp the whole magic item system/list. I admit, I don't understand why you think there would be a need unless you're just fond of the idea of socketing weapons. My suggestion, in practice, may look like the following example: - @l1, I pocess/obtain the family heirloom, a +1 Magic Longsword. - @l2, it manifests a new property, a certain viciousness (L2 is the first level at which the Vicious enchantment appears), becoming a +1 Vicious Longsword. - @l6, the efficacy of the weapon improves as if it were a +2 Magic Longsword, yet remains a +1 Vicious as well. At this point, we have two options for crit. damage, 2d6 or 1d12; I'd say take your pick, but a DM might want to pick one or the other. Essentially, all you're getting is the +2 to attack and +2 to damage roll bonuses with an optional crit. bonus while keeping all of the features of the +1 enchantment; for a Vicious Weapon this point is academic if the DM decides since the only benefit is in the crit. damage. - @l7, the viciousness of the weapon grows and the family heirloom becomes a full blown +2 Vicious Longsword (per the normal level of a +2 Vicious Weapon). - The above progression continues a levels, 11, 12, 16, 17, 21, 22, 26, and 27. Optionally - @l12, the longsword becomes a +3 Jagged Longsword instead of a +3 Vicious, a logical change that thematically* fits the evolution of the weapon. With this system, at a minimum, players can expect to upgrade enhancement bonuses for attacks, damage, and defenses at the significant levels without much concern for finding those types of magic items. This system could also be applied to non-enhancement-providing items that improve from tier to tier if, for instance, the heirloom is the prized Horned Helm of your tribal champion. And I'm not suggesting that the system only apply to items if they have a story behind them, I'm just fond of the notion that a story exists for at least one item in a character's possession. However, having at least one item with a backstory may or may not be a requirement that a DM places on the players if he elects to use the system. If that one enchantment one wants isn't available until late paragon and earlier enchantments don't necessarily fit thematically (a matter that is completely subjective and arbitrary), perhaps a L20 +4 Dancing Weapon, then those magic items would just progress inherently until the "real" magic happens at L20, when the true nature the item manifests. Or, in the meantime, special properties might be embued to gain enchantments via rare (not the gaming mechanic that WotC implemented) treasure. Also, I'm not suggesting that any magic item spontaneously manifests a special enchantment; that would be reserved for items with a backstory. Instead, finding a rare (not the D&D mechanic) treasure that embues an item with special properties (a special metal, oil, hide, rune, scroll, fabric, stitching pattern, etc.) would take the place of finding a lot of magic plate mail, fullblades, and halberds. Perhaps one would have to find a specific person and/or place, perhaps based upon your power source (smith/forge, scholar/library/observatory, priest/temple, shaman/grove/mountain, etc.) to perform the appropriate ritual to use the treasure. For me, this system would take away the ubiquity of magic items in the world, though I recognize that some settings explicitly involve the proliferation of magic items, while maintaining the fun and frequency of finding something special and incorporating some story element, however big or small, into its acquisition. *Keeping a theme to the weapon may or may not be a restriction that a DM would place on this system.
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Post by reiphil on Aug 2, 2011 13:09:30 GMT -8
I do and don't like "evolving" weapons. I think it should be the user who evolves instead.
My idea for a weapon/armor/neck inherent bonus was the following:
Enchantments are only found in enchantment imbuing stones/scrolls.
1) You gain inherent bonuses at the specific level (1/6/11/16/21/26 i think) 2) Magical enchantments may be purchased or found for your weapons/armors/neck at the cost of their second rank (IE vicious enchantment may only be purchased as it's +2 lvl requirement/gold)[this makes enchantments further spread out and does increase difficulty for some enchantments to obtain]. 3) The enchantment functions at the same level of your inherent bonus 4) You may apply a new stone/scroll at any time, however the original enchantment will be lost. The transfer enchantment ritual may be used to swap the enchantment to an empty imbuing stone but not an empty imbuing scroll.
What this allows, in my mind, is for you to have considerable talent in any weapon you pick up that you are proficient with, making it seem much more skillful for the character and makes you have some tough or varied decisions on what kind of enchantments you want to find.
It also allows me to keep having special magic items that have other properties as well.
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Post by kore on Aug 2, 2011 13:58:17 GMT -8
I think it should be the user who evolves instead. This sums up my opinion as well and I like your ideas. My view on this matter is based, partially, on the way I perceive the different playing experiences between Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 of which I consider the latter to be superior. In ME1, having 10 ranks of every type of weapon and upgrade in the galaxy and collecting up to 150 items that one could carry on their person takes me out of the game; suspension of belief is lost. Beside that, scrolling through an inventory of mostly duplicate items doesn't define "fun" for me. Of course, the ranks were there to scale against the increasing difficulty of the game that came with leveling up. The approach in ME2 maintained a variety models for each weapon-type (shotguns, assault rifles, etc.) without gorging me with options and an "unrealistic" inventory to maintain. Upgrades represented researchable technologies that were universally applied to specific game elements. But the real power came from how I evolved my character's class powers which I could then join with the weapon of my choice. I suppose my linking the "leveling-up" of enhancement bonuses to the weapons drew attention away from the ultimate intent of my proposal: addressing any concern of keeping pace with the mechanics of combat by removing the need to upgrade one's equipment every 5 levels. So yeah, make the enhancement bonuses inherent and scale enchantments according to the level of the character. The "evolving" of enchantments (i.e. Vicious to Jagged) was a take-it-or-leave it proposal. If it were up to me, I would limit this to one storied item in a character's possession.
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Post by reiphil on Aug 2, 2011 14:39:51 GMT -8
I don't really mind the "evolving" of weapons, but in my head it doesn't as much make sense to me.
I can sort of see how a vicious weapon, slowly after all the bites and kicks from fighting, the edge becomes jagged. Sure, but from a mechanical stand point, i feel it also limits the imagination of the player and allows the player to use what he wants and not what he is given.
I'd rather the player use more of what is given to them, surroundings, weapons, etc, instead of leave the player to design every aspect of how their players are going to progress. Especially if they player makes a changing decision in RP or stuff like that, it would completely affect how the weapon should progress from the original plan.
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Post by reiphil on Aug 2, 2011 14:40:58 GMT -8
Also, from what i recall, and rumors? David may end eberron due to work in october, so that may be the day I pick up from him. But who knows? Not sure if those rumors are valid or not.
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Post by kore on Aug 2, 2011 14:57:37 GMT -8
Also, from what i recall, and rumors? David may end eberron due to work in october, so that may be the day I pick up from him. But who knows? Not sure if those rumors are valid or not. *Double-take* DAVID, is what he saying truUE? Actually, I have a vague sense that this was communicated at one time but never gave it a second thought.
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Post by David on Aug 3, 2011 18:05:51 GMT -8
Nope. The campaign may once have ended due to new work, but my new job's in Irvine and my new place is in Corona, so the game continues.
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Post by reiphil on Aug 9, 2011 10:23:35 GMT -8
Ok I added new stuff to the history, cleaned up some stuff, added more information for races, wars, factions, nations...
Also added some data about the character creation rules.
Can you guys help me by combing through the campaign setting and letting me know if there is anything that needs clarifying or should be added?
Thanks!
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Post by kore on Aug 9, 2011 13:05:09 GMT -8
Ok I added new stuff to the history, cleaned up some stuff, added more information for races, wars, factions, nations... Also added some data about the character creation rules. Can you guys help me by combing through the campaign setting and letting me know if there is anything that needs clarifying or should be added? Thanks! I'll take a look later today.
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Post by earthwizard on Aug 9, 2011 13:38:22 GMT -8
I totally missed this thread. Sorry.
Phil, I thought Karnth was great, and I'd love to play in that world again. If you want to DM again, let me know. I'm sure we can work something out.
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