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Post by narutoanbu on Aug 25, 2010 22:11:30 GMT -8
1st and for most I don't see why Arch-Angel is taboo. Bringing up Judas Was mute. Look how many people have been named after iconic figures, and yes I have even met an Adolf.
I'm attached to the name cause of what it means. What the Arch-Angels are, so yeah I could change the name to another hierarchy but they wont have the same meaning. When I designed this character it was with this name in mind. With out it I'd have to change the back story cause it wouldn't make since to me, I'd also have to change the powers. Do to the fact I base my powers off of my back story and name.
I mean I'm not asking for anything unreasonable. You said it yourself Joseph make a concept and stick with it. Besides you let me name my other guy Gaara and he is a well known person in naruto. Like I asked before are the X-men going to be a group we are going to run into a lot?
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Post by narutoanbu on Aug 25, 2010 23:54:00 GMT -8
I'll let the pros continue to help you with the build, but the concept is sound. Nothing gamebreaking. Backstory issues. I'm assuming you do not mean he literally single-handedly built his headquarters brick-by-brick, (because that would just be silly) so are you constructing your base with stolen money? Are you using your knowledge of hacking as a way to get unlimited funds? This is not very heroic and I doubt your parents are going to support someone who might potentially end up as an enemy. Where are you getting your resources? Just because you can spend power points on something doesn't mean you get it no questions asked, especially if that something is as huge as being extremely wealthy. Being that wealthy has obvious benefits, but also brings many inherent complications. Just ask Stephen. Your girlfriend knows you are the son of the bad guys, but not that he has an alternate super hero identity? Just clarifying so I understand. Your parents destroyed an entire city on a job you were involved in. I am assuming there is officially a warrant out for your arrest and you are using your morph ability to hide? If not, please explain. Your character concept is very intriguing and has a lot of potential, but is currently lacking many vital details necessary for it to maintain some sense of believability... even for a 4-color comic book world. Also, please proofread your backstories. Slang is mostly ok and I don't expect perfect structure, (I don't pay that close attention to my own) but you can do much better at spelling, capitalization, and the use of complete sentences. These are not things teachers teach just to annoy you, they teach them so when people read your writing they don't want to gouge their eyes out; a key component in getting people to treat you seriously. Ok so i don't know how to do the separate quote boxes so I'll do it numerically starting from back story issues. 1. Haha Hell No. I paid to have it built. Never did I think of Arch-Angel as being a builder. I am still working on exactly how he did it. I'm thinking he paid a guy to pretend it was for him but never know the exact spot. Basically just be the front man to sign the papers and checks. then when it was built Arch-Angel moved in and made all the tech stuff. I also had the idea of Arch-Angels alter ego Murphy MacManus being the person that buys the land for a private "something" and uses that excuse to build the head quarters. Arch-Angel Was put into hacking accounts at an early age and can do so relatively easy. So to fund the family he would hack into some of the richer criminals' accounts. leaving a trail ofcorse trying to show that they were Superior, sorta like how a Medieval lord paid homage to a king. the difference is they stole it to instigate them to do something about it if that makes since. So when he ran he emptied his share of the accounts and took it with him. Arch-Angel doesn't care if he steals from criminals. Also Murphy is the lead Guitarist in a very popular Metal-core band So Arch-Angel has access to two wealth avenues. Both give him free time unless hes on tour that is. 2. haha Yeah I thought about why i was rich before I took the feats. 3. No his girlfriend thinks he is Darkcide cause they met in the hero academy a place that didn't welcome Arch-Angel so he left. After about 6 months they got pretty close and told each other who they really were. So she is technically Darkcide's girlfriend thinking he is Murphy. Having no clue that Darkcide/Murphy is really Arch-Angel.(This is the best part of it all. While Darkcide I can only use Teleport and combat abilities that's it. so he will be pretty weak. so if a strong person comes out and darkcide cant take him on by himself Arch-Angel Is fucked. Unless he pulls a Peter Parker and runs like a coward to change into Arch-Angel) wow that's going to be a huge complication haha can characters die of stress? 4. No the job wasn't that big it just really opened his eyes. After he started researching his family activities. I was just saying that was their nature. what boundaries they were willing to cross without hesitation. True super villains. I'm using morph to take on the identities of Murphy,and darkcide. So in a way yeah to hide hes really Arch-Angel but no to the warrant. Any other questions let me know I'll be happy to clear anything up.
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Post by reiphil on Aug 26, 2010 5:21:23 GMT -8
Besides you let me name my other guy Gaara and he is a well known person in naruto. Like I asked before are the X-men going to be a group we are going to run into a lot? 1) Gaara is not a well known comic book hero across the comic book universe. He is centralized to Japan, anime fans, and narutards. 2) I don't think Joseph knows Gaara. I can feel you for wanting to be called Archangel, but also, it is more of a rank. You should be Archangel <Insert name here> if anything. Some people, lower angels for example, may call you Archangel, where as others such as those outside the angel heirarchy would call you by your entire rank and name. It is sort of like the military. How you could just address someone by their rank, such as General or Lieutenant. But those outside the military would say General Barros or Lieutenant Jones at the least.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Aug 26, 2010 7:01:01 GMT -8
Exactly. If we were playing an anime style game then Gaara would also be out. However, because we are playing comic heroes, that means no major character name rip-offs. That's generally a big unspoken no-no in RPGs. For example, someone coming to a DnD game with a halfling rogue named Bilbo Baggins.
As far as picking a character concept and sticking to it, you are over dramatizing. Archangel is the term for a high ranking angel or head of the angels. That's it. Any other meaning you attach to it is your own. I fail to see how your character absolutely HAS to have a character name meaning "high ranking angel" to work. Dude you don't even have wings, so even from a symbolic point of view I fail to see why that is the ONLY name in existence that can work. Take the time to actually look up rebastards names and their meanings and you will see that there are many different names with very similar meanings.
Furthermore, you having an example is the exception that proves the rule. Just because someone named their kid Adolph doesn't make it a good idea. Just because you can snort a quart of liquid cocaine in 20 minutes doesn't mean you should. Just because you can write Archangel on your character sheet doesn't mean it's ok.
What you "can" do in life and what you "should" do in life do not always mesh.
Your parents destroyed a city. In no way, shape, or form could that be considered "not that big of a job." So either they destroyed a city or not. If they did, there is NO way it would be forgotten by the nation. Doubly so in a post-911 world.
Thinking about being rich is different than explaining it. You need to explain it in print before the game, because I don't tolerate backstory ad-libbing in game.
There are a multitude of problems with your hacking story. For one, criminals of the non-corporate variety probably aren't gonna put their money in the bank unless it isn't a significant amount because if they did, at the very least they'd get busted by the IRS and jailed for a long time for unreported income.
Plus it doesn't give you as much free time as you think. Hacking protections are constantly updated at that level of security. You would need to be constantly researching and programming to keep up with the technology you are trying to break. Hacking isn't some skill set you learn and it never grows stale. I am probably grossly oversimplifying the complexities involved with being a super hacker.
Furthermore, the United States governemnt, and probably other governments (due to that even if the criminals are entering their money into the system many might choose off shore accounts) will be after you. Criminal targets or not, you are essentially robbing banks. The government punishes that HARD. They don't go "oh well when you broke into our system and stole money you only stole it from bad guys, so its ok." Hell no. You hack into a bank, the FBI is coming for you. Maybe even the secret service. And when they catch you, you will do hard time in a federal pound-me-in-the ass prison. And in Freedom City, yes, they do have prisons built especially for supers. There's an entire splat book on the biggest one Freedom City has. The government is not unlike the Mafia; if you mess with their currency, they come to collect. With interest.
The more I think about it, and maybe someone else can educate me on how I might be wrong, but I'm not sure you can be a hacker at that level and be on the good side of the law.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Aug 26, 2010 9:10:06 GMT -8
The band thing can definitely work, but at some point you will likely have to choose between the life of a super hero and the life of a Rock Star. Being a famous musician doesn't give you as much free time as you might think unless you are not currently recording, touring, or promoting anything. If you are not interested in furthering your career as a musician and just want to coast on your earnings, then that works. Or if your band is on hiatus because you're all a bunch of primadonnas who can't get along that also works. But the minute you go into the recording studio for a new album, your free time goes right out the window. Oh you'll be available on various nights and occasionally the weekend, but once the recording process begins you will not be available very often.
First you'll likely spend a couple months or so in the studio. Then you'll need to promote the album which will require you to make appearances on radio shows, TV, and interviews for magazines like Spin and Rolling Stone. This often happens simultaneously with a world tour which is one hell of a grind. Yes you have time to party and do things while on the road... but you are on the road. Not in Freedom City where a vengeance demon is eating the heads off of bad boyfriends. I'm not saying you can't be a rock star, but it is your responsibility, not mine, to explain how it is you can be both famous and have time to be a crime fighter and a cutting edge bank hacker in Freedom city.
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Post by kore on Aug 26, 2010 10:35:01 GMT -8
Exactly. If we were playing an anime style game then Gaara would also be out.. Who's Gaara? ... Don't answer that, I am being facetious; I knew who Naruto is but didn't know who Gaara was until this topic came up. I fail to see why that is the ONLY name in existence that can work. There have been a couple of times where I was going to comment on this topic. After writing a few paragraphs on two seperate occasions, I ended up scraping my comments thinking, "you know, I'm not playing in this game so I won't muddy the waters anymore than they already are." However, this issue is about more than just this game, it's about how one suspends belief in a fantasy setting. If you've read the Inception spoiler link I posted about elsewhere on this board (a couple of weeks ago) then you know to what I'm referring. In a world where super powers (whether biological, alien, mechanical, etc.) exist, one suspends belief because that it one of the expected parameters. But, having experience in the genre, one also brings preconceoptions, that represent how we suspend belief, into the game. These preconceptions are based upon those experiences with similar models of the various super hero universes to which we've been exposed. Thusly, they inform certain expectations of any model we end up exploring in our games. If I joined the game and named my character Clark Kent, and his alter ego is Cyclops, I have instantly created three barriers to the suspension of belief for my fellow players. There is only one Clark Kent that matters in the super hero genre, there is only one Cyclops similarly, and the Clark Kent we all know is Superman, not Cyclops. By borrowing from the genre, even something as simple as a name, we risk breaking the reality that has been built, a reality that relies on our ability to suspend belief as a group. ...at the very least they'd get busted by the IRS and jailed for a long time for unreported income. As one who works in the financial industry, I can testify that it is no easy task moving large sums of money. Reports of amounts, that would seem quite insubstantial to us, get filed when deposits or withdrawals of a set amount or higher are made. Plus it doesn't give you as much free time. Hacking protections are constantly updated at that level of security. You would need to be constantly researching and programming to keep up with the technology you are trying to break. Hacking isn't some skill set you learn and it never grows stale. I am probably grossly oversimplifying. QTF. The more I think about it, and maybe someone else can educate me on this, but I'm not sure you can be a hacker at that level and be on the good side of the law. Is this a question of feasibility or morality? From the morality perspective it would be easy to 'explain away' the behavior as vigilante, where the end justifies the means, not matter how reprehensible; think Punisher. Feasibility is almost as easy to explain by suggesting that 'the law' (government) might apprehend a wanted criminal and then use that individual's expertise, in the area of their criminal activity, against other criminals of a similar nature; think Frank Abagnale Jr.
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Post by frobones on Aug 26, 2010 10:37:49 GMT -8
I'm attached to the name cause of what it means. What the Arch-Angels are, so yeah I could change the name to another hierarchy but they wont have the same meaning. When I designed this character it was with this name in mind. With out it I'd have to change the back story cause it wouldn't make since to me, I'd also have to change the powers. Do to the fact I base my powers off of my back story and name. I too fail to see the need for this guy to be called Arch-Angel, I see no connection between the name and what you can do. I would be just as confused if the Flash called himself something unrelated to speed - like Fatman or something. 3. No his girlfriend thinks he is Darkcide cause they met in the hero academy a place that didn't welcome Arch-Angel so he left. After about 6 months they got pretty close and told each other who they really were. So she is technically Darkcide's girlfriend thinking he is Murphy. Having no clue that Darkcide/Murphy is really Arch-Angel.(This is the best part of it all. While Darkcide I can only use Teleport and combat abilities that's it. so he will be pretty weak. so if a strong person comes out and darkcide cant take him on by himself Arch-Angel Is fucked. Unless he pulls a Peter Parker and runs like a coward to change into Arch-Angel) wow that's going to be a huge complication haha can characters die of stress? This confuses me even more with the different identities, please be very very explicit when you write up the real backstory.
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Post by kore on Aug 26, 2010 10:39:32 GMT -8
If I joined the game and named my character Clark Kent, and his alter ego is Cyclops, I have instantly created three barriers to the suspension of belief for my fellow players. There is only one Clark Kent that matters in the super hero genre, there is only one Cyclops similarly, and the Clark Kent we all know is Superman, not Cyclops. I just found a fourth, which was touched upon in this thread. Clark Kent is a DC character and Cyclops is a Marvel character. Wow, what a mutt!
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Post by mrdent12 on Aug 26, 2010 11:22:07 GMT -8
1. Haha Hell No. I paid to have it built. Never did I think of Arch-Angel as being a builder. I am still working on exactly how he did it. I'm thinking he paid a guy to pretend it was for him but never know the exact spot. Basically just be the front man to sign the papers and checks. then when it was built Arch-Angel moved in and made all the tech stuff. I also had the idea of Arch-Angels alter ego Murphy MacManus being the person that buys the land for a private "something" and uses that excuse to build the head quarters. Unless you killed/mindwiped the workers who built your headquarters, there is a bunch of workers who know the location of your head quarters. Also, wouldn't the construction of the head quarters make a lot of noise, unless it is built in an already existing cave structure? This reminds me of a discussion earlier on the boards somewhere about how Bruce Wayne built the bat cave. The jist of it was that he did all the power hook ups and other required things at night while the workers made his mansion. (This is the best part of it all. While Darkcide I can only use Teleport and combat abilities that's it. so he will be pretty weak. so if a strong person comes out and darkcide cant take him on by himself Arch-Angel Is fucked. Unless he pulls a Peter Parker and runs like a coward to change into Arch-Angel) So Darkcide has his own power set and has no access to Arch-Angel powers? I am probably understanding it incorrectly, but unless he requires special gear to be Arch-Angel why can't Darkcide just use Arch-Angel powers when fighting? It is not as if power sets are unique. 4. No the job wasn't that big it just really opened his eyes. After he started researching his family activities. I was just saying that was their nature. what boundaries they were willing to cross without hesitation. True super villains. I'm using morph to take on the identities of Murphy,and darkcide. So in a way yeah to hide hes really Arch-Angel but no to the warrant. How can he work with his parents on a job that results in a city being blown up and not have an arrest warrant out on his head? I am not a big comic reader by any stretch, but I imagine that if some one was with a team that blew up a city there would be a massive outcry from the public to arrest said person and a warrant would be issued. I don't know how closely Joseph will follow the Freedom city campaign setting in terms of government agencies, but in the Freedom City setting I would imagine that Aegis would be working with the FBI and UNISON to track down the culprits of the massive destruction. One final comment for this post. I fail to see how his name Arch-Angel relates to his powers. From what I gather, his powers are cosmic origin. If he had wings like ArchAngel from marvel it might work, but any name on a cosmic scale would seem to work.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Aug 26, 2010 11:50:32 GMT -8
The more I think about it, and maybe someone else can educate me on this, but I'm not sure you can be a hacker at that level and be on the good side of the law. Is this a question of feasibility or morality? From the morality perspective it would be easy to 'explain away' the behavior as vigilante, where the end justifies the means, not matter how reprehensible; think Punisher. Feasibility is almost as easy to explain by suggesting that 'the law' (government) might apprehend a wanted criminal and then use that individual's expertise, in the area of their criminal activity, against other criminals of a similar nature; think Frank Abagnale Jr. That question was more about feasibility. Your example is one I had not thought of, but my point still remains: the government is coming after you if you fuck with the money system. As you pointed out they may not decide to put you in a pound-me-in-the-ass prison, but eventually, whether it's the government itself or Bubba, you will become someone's bitch. Mostly I want to get a point across that there are consequences to living such a life. He can still be super hacker if he wants so long as he accepts everything that goes along with that life. And it *will* affect every aspect of his life. He may not want that kind of ever-present complication constantly dogging him. Morality of stealing and breaking the law with the best of intentions is muddled at best. He's essentially playing a white-collar vigilante. However, I am not sure if I want to go into Watchmenesque questions concerning the morality of power and responsibility. The punisher doesn't 'explain away' the morality of bloody retribution; he outright ignores it. His "justification" that he is doing a public service is just a smoke screen to hide the fact that he is an extremely sick individual who wants to take out his own guilt and frustration on others. Don't get me wrong, I love the Punisher story and it's great reading... but realistically the mother fucker should be thrown in an institute or jail, the key needs to be melted down, and the remains blasted with a disintegration ray. Reed Richards can do it. However, our current campaign, Paragons, is a better fit for that type of morale dialogue and will likely come up in the future. At the moment I'm keeping the power and responsibility question at the much more simplified Spiderman level for Freedom City.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Aug 26, 2010 12:03:34 GMT -8
Oh and I hate to continue to piss in your corn flakes, but you get kicked out of the academy with a name like Archangel due to trust issues... so you come back with a name like "Darkcide" and no one bats an eye? I would think if someone went around calling themselves Darkcide, a lot of people would assume villain. But maybe I've read too many comic books... ohwaitaminnut!
In case you missed it I'm running Freedom City much more melodramatically: relatively few shades of grey. Darkcide sounds like a pretty, well, "Dark" character. Like someone from Image comics who punishes criminals with extreme predjudice. I don't want that. I won't force a name change, but I'm just warning you your character better not be one of those people who justifies killing under any circumstances. In Paragons there are consequences for that kind of mentality. In Freedom City I am outright banning it.
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Post by frobones on Aug 26, 2010 12:25:55 GMT -8
Oh and I hate to continue to piss in your corn flakes, but you get kicked out of the academy with a name like Archangel due to trust issues... so you come back with a name like "Darkcide" and no one bats an eye? I would think if someone went around calling themselves Darkcide, a lot of people would assume villain. But maybe I've read too many comic books... ohwaitaminnut! When I read, and thus hear in my mind, "Darkcide" I think of Darkseid: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DarkseidOuch. Busted. Yeah no blatant rip offs of any genre. Just because I don't know it, doesn't mean it's ok. A sand control person is fine. But a carbon copy INCLUDING personality and name? Don't ever do that again. Also know you are playing with Anime freaks. They will know immediately if you are even if I do not. So lucky Gary isn't part of this game... Besides you let me name my other guy Gaara and he is a well known person in naruto. Like I asked before are the X-men going to be a group we are going to run into a lot? For me there is a problem, I know who Gaara is. So when I hear that name called at the table, my mind automatically goes to Ninja of the sand who has the power to control sand. Then I look at your character and say "Oh waitaminute, he CAN control sand, etc". AND then my mind goes, "Wait, he calls himself Gaara, he looks like Gaara, he acts like Gaara, and he can do what Gaara does... but he's not Gaara from Naruto." Then I proceed to tell myself he had no creativity when he made his character and just accept the fact that he's Gaara but not Gaara so I can proceed with playing the game.
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Post by redbstrd on Aug 26, 2010 13:35:52 GMT -8
A) It's a marvel character. Check him out. Archangel is NOT a minor character by any stretch of the imagination. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Worthington_III#Angel_AgainB) You can't choose the name Archangel for the same reason most people don't name their children Judas Iscariot or Napoleon Bonaparte. Just because you are ignorant of a major and iconic Marvel character doesn't make it ok. I guess it's possible someone with zero knowledge of Christianity might call their child Judas Iscariot, but boy howdy I would not want to be that kid growing up. Choose another name. Redbastard suggested a slew of them. Name one of your kids Adolf Hitler. Do it. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28269290/
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Post by redbstrd on Aug 26, 2010 14:03:13 GMT -8
I'm attached to the name cause of what it means. What the Arch-Angels are, so yeah I could change the name to another hierarchy but they wont have the same meaning. When I designed this character it was with this name in mind. I don't want to delve too deeply into theological discussions, but the term "archangel" comes from two Greek roots: "arch-" and "-aggelos." "Arch" means "ruler," indicating that they are at the top of the hierarchy. "Aggelos" means messenger, indicating that archangels are messengers of God. It doesn't seem like your Archangel is either one of these. He doesn't have pronounced status nor is he any sort of a messenger. The Marvel character portrayed this issue well because he started as Angel and only added the "Arch-" prefix to his name when he acquired a high rank in Apocalypse's minion hierarchy. Your Archangel has Flight and medieval weaponry/armor that can give him a sort of angelic feel, but it doesn't seem like the term "archangel" captures something crucial about the character. If it helps, here are the roles that various angelic ranks performed: Seraphim - Caretakers. Cherubim - Protectors. Thrones - Defenders of justice and God's authority. Dominions - Managed the duties of the angelic ranks. Virtues - Ensured cosmic order. Powers/Authorities - Historians, warriors, managers of human power, and bearers of conscience.
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Post by kore on Aug 26, 2010 14:03:48 GMT -8
Yep, they sure did. And look how that's turning out for them. Such d-bags; they knew what they were doing and it has nothing to do with being loving parents. One could make the arguement against them as fit parents, they weren't ignorant in their actions. Here are a few outcomes for that kid as he grows up, there are, surely, more: - his parents instill a pride in his name that leads to certain political leanings (not really likely, but heh). - his parents instill a pride in his name that leads to him being an arrogant prick about other people's intolerances; this either leads to many ass kickings and coy claims of victimization (or suicide) or he becomes a bully and still claims victimization: "I can't get a job because of everyone's prejudice". - he grows up hating his parents and uses an alias until the time he can legally change his name and kiss his asshat parents goodbye.
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