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Post by Joseph Barros on Apr 20, 2010 10:28:37 GMT -8
Also, as a note to everyone, whether your character knows it or not make sure to note your power source i.e. mystical, inherent, alien, primal, infernal, etc. Think a little beyond just character origin concerning the source of your power. Again, your character need not be aware of things such as power sources.
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Post by frobones on Apr 20, 2010 14:59:12 GMT -8
Also, as a note to everyone, whether your character knows it or not make sure to note your power source i.e. mystical, inherent, alien, primal, infernal, etc. Think a little beyond just character origin concerning the source of your power. Again, your character need not be aware of things such as power sources. CoH FTW!
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Post by Joseph Barros on Apr 20, 2010 15:21:30 GMT -8
Yeah you can use that as a reference. I'm not worried if the nature of your power isn't referenced in a MM book or not. Just an extra little thing to help flesh out your character. Sounds like Stephen is going to be technological. My example character would be inherent/genetic.
Also for Freedom City, the term paranormal, while still applicable, will not be used as frequently as in Paragons. Freedom City's melodramatic nature will naturally lead to most paranormals to either be referred to as a superhero or a super-villain.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Apr 27, 2010 18:25:34 GMT -8
Moved Freedom City topic to it's own forum. When we eventually do Freedom City I want it to be completely separate seeing as different the two universes will be.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Apr 27, 2010 20:46:08 GMT -8
I also want to take back one thing I originally put out: super silly characters. You can definitely be a caricature of someone like Superman or Spiderman if you like, but I've decided I don't want to see the attack of the Muffin Man or the return of Kaptain Ketchup. Think Silver Age comic style.
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Post by frobones on May 17, 2010 18:59:20 GMT -8
Question for Joseph
So I have this idea for a character design and I want to run it by you first before I begin to flesh it out.
Super high level idea is Forge (from X-men) + The Flash. A speedster with superhuman IQ and skill with regards to engineering. The main thing I want to pass by you is combining Super-Speed with the Invention system of M&M. Take a gander at inventions on pg. 131 of the core rules, but the brief idea is to invent temporary devices that have a one-encounter use, then they de-active (that device can no longer be used); depending on how many power points the device has depends on how long it takes to make it (5 hours per Power Point). This is where super-speed comes in, I want to be able to whip things up in a matter of minutes. I can just imagine, my teammates standing in awe as I construct a freeze ray before their very eyes, to snuff a flaming meteor that was summoned by Dr. Insane-o to crush Freedom City. Or let's say we need to infiltrate a base, I could whip up some cloaking devices.
I thought the idea would be pretty cool, but as always I need the GM's perspective on much power this gives me as a player to be able to build one-shot wonders for any occasion/scenario. If the super speed is to much, I'd still like to explore the invention route, albeit at a much slower and regulated pace.
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Post by reiphil on May 17, 2010 19:48:27 GMT -8
It sounds like awesome to me.
But "real world"-y, the tools or how to weld or stuff like that still require time. Just because you move super fast doesn't mean welding together metal goes at the same speed...
Perhaps a power or equipment that is also "super speedy" or can influence materials in the same way? (power feat, flaw, etc etc)
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Post by frobones on May 17, 2010 20:09:27 GMT -8
But "real world"-y, the tools or how to weld or stuff like that still require time. Just because you move super fast doesn't mean welding together metal goes at the same speed... Perhaps a power or equipment that is also "super speedy" or can influence materials in the same way? (power feat, flaw, etc etc) Very valid point... I must rethink this...
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Post by kore on May 17, 2010 20:23:00 GMT -8
Very valid point... I must rethink this... So invent a quantum omni-tool that does all that...it's magic.
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Post by redbstrd on May 17, 2010 20:29:13 GMT -8
If you are using Ultimate Power, the Gadgets power is built specifically to provide gadgets that are available for use on a case by case basis (but the power is expensive).
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Post by frobones on May 17, 2010 22:13:17 GMT -8
If you are using Ultimate Power, the Gadgets power is built specifically to provide gadgets that are available for use on a case by case basis (but the power is expensive). Hmm... interesting. I think I may have to go this route and RP it the way I describe. As I did some more rules lawyering, I can't apply Quickness to making inventions. You can only use Quickness on tasks where you can take 20, a player is not allowed to take 20 on the check to construct an invention.
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Post by Joseph Barros on May 18, 2010 18:12:23 GMT -8
You can move 10X the speed of the flash but you can't make an atom bomb in a bakery with what's available. Materials are going to be a problem.
Also, in case this was what you had in mind, I will not allow anyone to rules lawyer a character that can do anything and everything. If your one character has an answer to all potential problems all by his lonesome, then that character is super borked. It seems like instead of creating something interesting you keep trying to come up with something uber just for the sake of creating something uber.
Maybe instead of starting with the powers you should start with a character. Think of an interesting personality you would be interested in playing and then choose powers that reflect that personality instead of vice-versa. Don't worry about squeezing every ounce you can to make him all-powerful. Instead focus that creativity on developing a personality and a power set to match.
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Post by frobones on May 19, 2010 0:18:10 GMT -8
You can move 10X the speed of the flash but you can't make an atom bomb in a bakery with what's available. Materials are going to be a problem. The idea was that I used my super speed to gather the materials I need from around the "world" to build neat/useful things on the spot. Also, in case this was what you had in mind, I will not allow anyone to rules lawyer a character that can do anything and everything. If your one character has an answer to all potential problems all by his lonesome, then that character is super borked. It wouldn't be full-blown answers to everything, more like a pseudo-solution as there is a limit on what powers I can simulate with inventions; namely, the ranks of the power would not be on par as if I had the power normally. But this point is moot now that I can't apply Quickness - I'll have to use the Gadgets power from Ultimate Power and RP it out that I make random gizmos on the spot from various materials from around the world, where in reality the power is just rearranging PP to various powers that devices can become using a Standard Action (pg. 159 of Ultimate Power). Take a look at that power to see if it's OK for me to use. If not, I'll pursue another superhero idea. It seems like instead of creating something interesting you keep trying to come up with something uber just for the sake of creating something uber. I thought this character idea was super interesting - giving the high level idea of the hero may have been misleading as him having the perfect solution to everything, but he's far from being uber. Maybe instead of starting with the powers you should start with a character. Think of an interesting personality you would be interested in playing and then choose powers that reflect that personality instead of vice-versa. Don't worry about squeezing every ounce you can to make him all-powerful. Instead focus that creativity on developing a personality and a power set to match. Since this is a superhero RPG, I like to start with the powers. Personality doesn't necessarily need to influence powers, or vice versa. They certainly can, but I don't feel that's a prerequisite. If anything, you immediately fall into clichés by doing that. And I don't choose personality based on powers, they are uncoupled to me; I choose powers I would enjoy to RP and a personality I would also enjoy to RP.
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Post by Joseph Barros on May 19, 2010 7:54:44 GMT -8
I understand what you are saying, but the thing with you is that the natural powergamer in you tends to go overboard when left unchecked. Like the character that could go incorporeal and still blast corporeal targets; the nigh-invincible cannon. Or the guy that can find anyone anywhere on a whim. A pseudo-solution for everything is still pretty bad. I don't want any one-man swiss army knives. The purpose of my suggestion was to give you some limitations so that you can more easily make something that fits into the G part of the RPG. Limitations don't limit your creativity. They instead force you to be even more creative because of the extra obstacles you are trying to overcome. Having powers reflect a personality only causes one to "immediately fall into cliches" if that person lack creativity. The hot head who goes human torch is a cliche. The hot head that causes his environment to rapidly freeze in an increasing radius as he loses his temper because he doesn't know that his power is fueled by the frozen throne of the devil himself, is not a cliche. That's what I meant. Maybe that isn't the answer for you, but it might be worth thinking about possible ways to temper yourself. Maybe force your self to have complications or reduce the ez mode-ness of your character. For example instead of making stuff on the spot, maybe drop the high-speed aspect. Not to mention the reality of zooming all over the world constantly stealing shit. Talk about a huge plot hole. Also not very heroic, and as I've mentioned Freedom City is a very melodramatic world. Or if you really want the speed, keep it, just drop the zooming across the world aspect. (which IMO is more ridiculous than "high concept.") You can build the stuff super fast... providing you know and have the materials necessary. A very interesting complication for this character would be that he is poor and has no financial backing whatsoever, so for most of his life the gadgets he makes are often "small" in scope and their results are... varied. Which is fine, because sometimes exploding pancake makers can be useful. Going back to your character though, the only problem I have is the zipping around the world scouring for materials aspect. This will cause a lot of headaches in the RP part of RPG as well. I'm not denying the fact that it's clever and original, but surely you can see why such a character would require everybody to ignore quite a bit in order to sustain suspension of disbelief. Ultimately, as I've said before, MnM is quite an unbalanced game. It requires a certain level of self-restraint you've never been asked to show in gaming. This will be your personal challenge in this game. Finally, I noticed your tagline. I think it's unfair. I haven't seen you try to do anything to shake the "brand." At all. The only character you've created that wasn't super power gamed was Yulis and that's pretty much only because you hadn't mastered the mechanics yet... and I still had to step in and change some problematic things around.
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Post by frobones on May 19, 2010 11:08:52 GMT -8
I understand what you are saying, but the thing with you is that the natural powergamer in you tends to go overboard when left unchecked. Like the character that could go incorporeal and still blast corporeal targets; the nigh-invincible cannon. He would have had a very common weakness that would nullify his incorporeality... but I guess it was still kinda uber. Or the guy that can find anyone anywhere on a whim. I thought a pretty simple disguise if someone didn't want to be found would have made this ability moot. But anyways, I'd really like to make this character work (Flash + Forge). So please get back to me on the Gadgets power and Jury rigging devices. We'll whittle this hero down until he's acceptable. A pseudo-solution for everything is still pretty bad. I don't want any one-man swiss army knives. Then would the Gadgets power (pg. 159 in UP) still be OK? Also take a look at Jury Rigging (pg. 131 in Core), it's a very simple vanilla mechanic in M&M that I really want to try - but it puts me in your swiss army knife category. The purpose of my suggestion was to give you some limitations so that you can more easily make something that fits into the G part of the RPG. Limitations don't limit your creativity. They instead force you to be even more creative because of the extra obstacles you are trying to overcome. Best. Advice. Ever. Maybe that isn't the answer for you, but it might be worth thinking about possible ways to temper yourself. Maybe force your self to have complications or reduce the ez mode-ness of your character. I guess I just expect/prepare for harder stuff that my heroes seem like ez-mode. For example instead of making stuff on the spot, maybe drop the high-speed aspect. Not to mention the reality of zooming all over the world constantly stealing shit. Talk about a huge plot hole. Also not very heroic, and as I've mentioned Freedom City is a very melodramatic world. Alternatively, he could just run back to his lab where he has all the materials he needs. I just thought being a lightspeed MacGyver was a cool idea. Or if you really want the speed, keep it, just drop the zooming across the world aspect. (which IMO is more ridiculous than "high concept.") You can build the stuff super fast... providing you know and have the materials necessary. Impossible now that I realize the rules prevent me from doing it, the alternative now is Jury Rigging. And yes, I really want the speed. A very interesting complication for this character would be that he is poor and has no financial backing whatsoever, so for most of his life the gadgets he makes are often "small" in scope and their results are... varied. Which is fine, because sometimes exploding pancake makers can be useful. Maybe... Finally, I noticed your tagline. I think it's unfair. I haven't seen you try to do anything to shake the "brand." At all. The only character you've created that wasn't super power gamed was Yulis and that's pretty much only because you hadn't mastered the mechanics yet... and I still had to step in and change some problematic things around. I think it's unfair to say I haven't been trying. Of all the things possible in M&M, I think I am at least making an attempt to curb myself. However, it's not curbed enough yet by your standards. If I wasn't trying at all, I would have attempted to make Yulis pump out 100 dupes each with an area power and have every single dupe target one guy - doesn't matter if I miss every attack, half damage from 100 attacks is still like landing 50 attacks (in one turn). So when I get called a Power Gamer, I just think of the things I could have done but didn't; and yet I'm still grouped with the lot that took it all the way. I've had this Power Gaming discussion with Phil a few times and I believe Power Gaming is a relative term. There are some things blatant enough to straight up call Power Gaming (like the example I just gave), but the gray areas is when it becomes relative - and that relative factor ultimately comes down to what the GM deems as Power Gaming, or too good, for the campaign setting. If I can make a better decision without sacrificing RP, I'll take it... but I guess that makes me a Power Gamer too. Just like choosing Longswords over Shortswords, in the general case, is considered a smart decision. Unless RP or a game mechanic tipped the scales, there's virtually no reason not to choose the Longsword. It's just the scope of my vision extends over simple decisions like these. But anyways, I'd really like to make this character work (Flash + Forge). So please get back to me on the Gadgets power and Jury Rigging Devices. We'll whittle this hero down until he becomes acceptable.
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