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Post by David on Nov 25, 2012 20:54:08 GMT -8
Assasin (Executioner) is considered divine.
A Dark race vampire will begin to be consumed by darkness in -2 or -3 lighting conditions (Umbra).
Racial vision bonuses do not apply, since the races have already been arranged by their preferred lighting. However, vision bonuses from other sources, such as class (e.g. Vampire) and magic items still work. There may need to be some house ruling these to make them work properly, which I'll do on a case by case bases.
I may also revise the lighting rules to give light/dark races a bonus in their native lighting. The current system is mostly penalties, so only makes things take longer.
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Post by David on Nov 25, 2012 21:39:27 GMT -8
Race and Class lists updated.
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Post by reiphil on Nov 26, 2012 15:11:26 GMT -8
For this run, are we starting anew, or continuing where the game has left off?
Also, it seems that twilight races have it best. If the party is opposing light/dark races is there hatred among them? At best, in an opposing environment, the party can have a -3 penalty to attack rolls (IE Dark/Light in a Light zone, light normally have a 0 penalty, but dark have a -6. Umbral flask is used, light now has a -3 penalty, dark has a -3 penalty).
Should everyone then roll as a twilight race to have at best a 0 penalty, if buying umbral flasks/sunrods?
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Post by frobones on Nov 26, 2012 20:12:58 GMT -8
Just take the Blindfighting feat "Your melee attacks take no penalties due to partial concealment or total concealment" (i.e. any lighting inconvenience)
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Post by reiphil on Nov 26, 2012 22:05:17 GMT -8
what if you want to play a ranged character?
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Post by David on Nov 26, 2012 23:12:06 GMT -8
We're continuing where the game left off, plot-wise. Bring the same or a new character. If it's a new character, let me know the backstory and if/why they were at the party where the old sorcerer went kaboom.
As for lighting, I propose the following Bonuses/Penalties for various light levels:
Lighting| Light races | Human | Twilight | Dwarf | Dark Races +4 | +2 | -2 | -4 | -5 | -6 +3 | +1 | -1 | -3 | -4 | -5 +2 | +0 | +0 | -2 | -3 | -4 +1 | -1 | +0 | -0 | -2 | -3 0 | -2 | -1 | +0 | -1 | -2 -1 | -3 | -2 | -0 | +0 | -1 -2 | -4 | -3 | -2 | +0 | +0 -3 | -5 | -4 | -3 | -1 | +1 -4 | -6 | -5 | -4 | -2 | +2 Average| -2 | -2 | -2 | -2 | -2
I extended the range, brought the zero level of the Light and Dark races down to 2 and gave them bonuses for the most extreme lighting. I also increased the range of light where some races have no bonus or penalty to address Phil's concern about putting together a party with different races. (This had the side benefit of making the average the same for every race.) There is still some tension in a party that has both light and dark races, as there should be.
The logic is that the human native level of +1 is "bright light" by normal D&D standards. -1 is Dim light, the native lighting of dwarves, where humans get a -2 penalty. -4 is complete darkness.
Levels upward of +1 indicate the presence of 'Lux', slow light trapped in a luminiferous aether. This stuff can pool and flow and is not necessarily only present during the day, but is attracted to (or created by) sunlight. Light races are adapted to the presence of Lux and get bonuses when it is concentrated. Other races are blinded by it.
Likewise, at levels below -1 the necrotic energy known as Umbra becomes concentrated in the aether. This energy is repelled by daylight (and by Lux). Dark races have a similar response to Umbra as Light races do to Lux.
Vampires of any race have no bonuses or penalties to vision. Light and Dark race vampires find their native energies anathema, and burn in concentrations corresponding to lighting of 2 or more in that direction (5 damage per lighting rank). Twilight vampires burn in either direction, but at concentrations of 3 or more. They do not resist nor are they vulnerable to radiant or necrotic damage.
Opinions and suggestions are welcome.
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Post by David on Nov 27, 2012 0:02:12 GMT -8
In case these formulae are more readable:
Light races modifier = Light level -2
Human modifier = -|1.5-Light level |+.5
Twilight modifier = -|Light level| if |Light level|>1, otherwise 0.
Dwarf modifier = -|1.5+Light level|+.5
Dark races modifier= -Light level-2
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Post by frobones on Nov 27, 2012 8:37:23 GMT -8
So with these new lighting rules, what determines the light level? Geographical region?
There are hard rules to determine Bright light, Dim Light, and Total Darkness, so I'm curious what will determine our new lighting types.
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Post by kore on Nov 27, 2012 9:29:27 GMT -8
I'm ashamed to admit, but I'm tripping over the light rules. The concept seems awesome, but how the system simulates may be escaping me.
I'm guessing we're dealing with more than Bright Light, Dim Light, and Darkness; represented by rows 4, 5, and 6 (respectively) in the new table? Thus, beyond those 3, there are 3 degrees of brightness greater than Bright Light (rows 1-3, due to Lux) and 3 degrees of darkness greater than Darkness (rows 7-9, due to Umbra). Is this an accurate summary?
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Post by reiphil on Nov 27, 2012 9:37:07 GMT -8
how exactly are Sorcerors treated? Essentially I can understand we are wanted, kind of like highlander (kind of like Dark sun where arcane is essentially banned), but what if a character had arcane powers? Could people tell? Would they assume first that it is a different power source, like Psionic, or Divine, possibly shadow?
I am thinking of playing a sorceror but not if I cast an at-will and suddenly am hunted for the rest of the game.
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Post by kore on Nov 27, 2012 10:01:29 GMT -8
The table doesn't correctly represent the logic for Twilight race modifiers. Should it not be (Max Lux) -4|-3|0|0|0|0|0|-3|-4| (Max Umbra)? At light level (LL) +2 and -2, the |LL| is not greater than 2, therefore the modifier is 0.
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Post by reiphil on Nov 27, 2012 10:08:34 GMT -8
I still think Twilight is your best bet for the Meta Game. They might not get any bonuses, but not having any penalties (after a sunrod or umbra flask use) is pretty boss. I think it might be also pertinent to know how much adventuring will be done in either of the zones to help players decide their characters. IE if we're 90% of the time in Twilight... then I'd be more incline to play a twilight character. If it's an even 33% spread, then it might be better. Stephen and I discussed and think a Sun Sickness effect may be better suited or other bonuses for choosing a light/dark race and lighter penalties. Here is my suggested - Light/Dark Races: - +2 to attack/damage in home territory
- 5 resist Radiance/Fire (Light) or 5 resist Necrotic/Cold (Dark)
- -2 Penalty to attack in Twilight Lighting.
- -5 Penalty to attack in Enemy Lighting
- -3 Penalty to damage and vulnerable 3 (per tier maybe?) in Enemy Territory
Twilight Race: - -5 Penalty to attack in Light/Dark Lighting
- Combat Advantage against Light/Dark races in Twilight Lighting
- Resist 3 to Light/Dark races in Twilight Territory
Humans/Dwarves: - -5 penalty in Light (Dwarf) or Dark (Human) Lighting
- Resist 3 Fire(Human), Cold (Dwarf)
- No penalties in Twilight Lighting
- Combat Advantage against opposed territory enemies while in Light (Human) or Dark (Dwarf) territories.
Reasoning: Light races function superbly well and are empowered while in Light territories, while Dark are the same in their territories. The Lux/Umbra infuses both in their respective territory giving them resistances to the elements they face most. However, they are slightly weaker away from the light in Twilight, and significantly weaker in opposing territories as the Lux/Umbra suppresses them. Twilight Races suffer from blindness in opposing territories. They flourish in their own territories, however, and can prey on the Light/Dark races that are weaker from being away from their source of power. Also, having no allegiance to either dark or light race, they gain a resistance while in their territory as the other power source cannot affect them. Special races gain a bit of bonus while being within the territory they are closer to, Humans in light and Dwarves in dark. They suffer no penalties within twilight or their respective territories and gain combat advantage against opposing races while in the territories they are close to. Light rules are essentially: Light Lighting <-> Twilight Lighting <-> Dark Lighting Umbral Flasks and Sunrods will work to bright the light level down or up 1 respectively, and do not stack, however, a sunrod and umbral flask used at the same time will cancel the effect. This allows for Dark races to suffer a penalty for being in Light Territory but still be able to fight at a -1 penalty to attack rolls, and vice versa.
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Post by frobones on Nov 27, 2012 10:30:21 GMT -8
Here was my line of thinking. I don't know how you are personifying Lux and Umbral, but I thought we could take a Dark Sun approach to this. Instead of harsh lighting bonuses/penalties to hit, we have the sun sickness disease straight out of the Dark Sun Campaign book. Again, this could totally flop depending on your interpretation of Umbral.
Instead of a Light/Darkness Dichotomy, what if our world had two suns. Lux, the sun of Light and Umbra, sun of Indigo. Both sources provide actual light that allows a humanoid with normal vision to see. However, the Indigo sun Umbra has a different hue to it, since the light it casts is a different color.
We can still have the Races split into their categories, but now we can keep their vision bonuses. Bright light is bright light to all races, likewise with dim light and total darkness. However, it now come froms two sources, Lux or Umbra. However, if a Light race is under the rays of Umbra, they are subject to Sun Sickness. Lkewise with Dark races in the light of Lux.
As like in Dark Sun, there can be precaution taken when you are endanger of sun sickness. Heavy clothing, sun balm, etc. If you go a day without these precautions, you get attacked by Sun Sickness.
Under this proposal, Light and racial vision perks are the same in the normal campaign. However, Natural Light can come from two sources, Lux and Umbra. Depending on your race and which light you are exposed to, you can be subjected to sun sickness. This throws the metagame aspect out the window, while keeping the flavor of the world you proposed. To put it in M&M terms, Lux and Umbral are now complications as opposed to circumstance penalties/bonuses.
Humans, Dwarves and Twilight races still have to be sorted out in this proposal, but I think this can be a good start.
The RP/logic behind the sun sickness for the Races in the opposed region can sort of be like the Red Sun of Superman. When he was exposed to our yellow sun, its radiation gave him super powers. However, in this world, since the Dark and Light races over the generations have grown accustomed to the radiation of their own sun, being in the presence of the other sun is harmful to them.
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Post by kore on Nov 27, 2012 10:42:34 GMT -8
Interesting ideas, but I think we need to hear more from David. It appears to me that David doesn't just want 3 (or even 5 or 7) levels to each extreme. Lux and Umbra exist in extremely varying degrees as the energies of each seep into or are stored in any given environment.
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Post by David on Nov 28, 2012 0:12:05 GMT -8
The table doesn't correctly represent the logic for Twilight race modifiers. Should it not be (Max Lux) -4|-3|0|0|0|0|0|-3|-4| (Max Umbra)? At light level (LL) +2 and -2, the |LL| is not greater than 2, therefore the modifier is 0. You're right, should have been =>2, or just >1. This has been corrected.
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