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Post by vinnytheelf on Sept 9, 2008 4:22:09 GMT -8
That is my opinion of last Sunday's game session. There may have been 8 players, but 2 of you were messing up the game for the rest. Gary. You take up too much time with your character development and character 'usage' shall we say. But this only happens when you have too much ale in you. You are far better a player and possibly the best rp gamer I have ever known. But you just drag out the things you do when you have a few ales and slow the game down. We're buddies and all but man the last session where you spent over an hour doing Les stuff, I guess I should have asked you to stop messing with your servant and the flame thing earlier. I did say it smelled fishy, the hole in the ground that is.... but ah well I cannot give out too many dissuading comments or diversionary tactics cos you sometimes dont get it due to the brain fuzz... Kyle. The constant put downs and "yawn yawn oh not more dialogue" comments have reached their limit with me. I really dont know why you are playing in my game anymore because you have all but stopped rp, of which you are really good at. You just dont seem to like my DM'ing style or the game I am running or something. That's fine but to hear you bemoaning this and that, its just not doing you any good regards how I see you, as you have seen it pissed me off, you pissed me off(and that is not easy to do) and so I shut 'Hal' up and you guys now really will never know what happened at the dreaming facility, why and where you could have been looking next. I wonder why you do that also because for one you as a DM should know the players need dialogue from NPC's at certain times to give info on plot, history, this and that or misdirection attempts. Tell me one time I have ever done that in your game or Garys? I will tell you NEVER. I just have more respect, why dont you? Joseph. You set a good standard for an all round well balanced and well informed/skilled player and a damned good rp'er. I have no problems with your gaming. You guys should really take a look at Joseph because he sets the standard, he may have been a bit slow to join in with rp and leadership at first but he has stepped up his game tremendously and shown me that he is a Brilliant gamer and is the Perfect gamer I would play with or run a game for. Phil. Your new to the group and have been 'trying things on with the DM' shall we say, seeing how far you can get, sometimes its subtle sometimes not so subtle, all these things will just come out in game and be dealt with in game as far as I am concerned, because its what your character is doing, thats fine, but as you have seen, there can be harsh responses to your characters actions.. I wonder whether you wanted to cause Alaren's death sooner than later? If you were trying to kill off your character, well thats ok, I actually prefer players to do something 'in game' with their character than just saying I dont wanna play this guy no more, heres my new guy. All I can say is, nice one, but slapping a Druid with whom you are seeking help...? Odd, but in any case yeah sure I can accomodate that kind of play and regards the actual death, well sure no fault of yours unless Gary clued you into the ritual prior to that, like outside on a break, well you really would never have known about that ritual unless...hmm you read it somewhere. Anyway I really havent gamed with you enough to make a worthwhile opinion or judgement on your gaming, you know your rules, well 99%. You played well and seem like a cool guy. Homie. Turn up for a game and be Miles' biatch all you want...  Uhm.. yeah you made a good decision to not play if you really were sick... So, heres the main point. Matt and Jem drove miles just to get reaquainted with you guys and to play in a game for some fun and old time gaming, yet I watched them yawn, fall asleep and look thoroughly bored and uninvolved in the latter half of the session. I accept some of the blame, the group was too big and the adventure objectives from lack of play had become foggy, though I thought I jogged your memories, perhaps not. I have no animosity towards anyone, but some players playstyles and table manners are just giving me a problem running the game at the level I like to. I have lost the Fun factor running these games for you guys as the group is now. I am unable to keep the entertainment going the way, as a DM, I enjoy dishing it out and so, I am cancelling my Eberron game until further notice. I would really like to say it was me, but honestly, I love being a DM, I really enjoy putting my imagination into the quests I write, I thoroughly enjoy acting out the persona's of the NPC's and Monsters straight and tongue-in-cheek. Problem is, all these last sessions you guys have had your fun(if any) at my expense and I just dont feel like doing it anymore. I am tired of seeing my Eberron Campaign world getting trashed and made fun of, I am tired of trying to entertain the few who keep pissing on my DM style and efforts. I am tired of it. It was fun for a long while, but recently it went downhill, I really don't want it to get any more sour. Blame whoever you want, I know I have pointed the finger. I may be right I may be wrong but fuck it, who cares. |
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Post by reiphil on Sept 9, 2008 8:17:58 GMT -8
Just to say, I had not meant to slap the druid in a harsh manor. More like a tap on the shoulder, or a shove to snap him out of his awe inspired trance caused by the angel. I guess you perceived this as a threat and handled the game this way, but that is not what I meant it to be. Perhaps Alaren should have snapped his fingers in front of the druid's eyes, but however, that is not how he works. Alaren works for and strives for results, and wanted to get the druid to work quickly since specifically they were supposed to be hurrying on their way to Droz or Agathon and Sherwood. Alaren wasn't about to let some awe inspired twit sit there in a trance when they should have been hurrying and getting themselves toward Agathon and Sherwood. Graktor himself should have stepped him and probably yelled "Hey man, step out of this. Help or not, we must be on our way quickly."
Originally I had designed Reason to be the character I was going to play for the 9th level game when you had invited me to join. Which is why I had that character ready to play in my folder. I didn't try to kill Alaren at all. You already know that Alaren is a seeker of knowledge, so that when he sees a ritual that he has no idea of, he wants to be a part of it, feel the arcane magics around it and try and understand it, perhaps learn it. Lez never told Alaren of the danger, Lez only told Alaren that if he wanted to help, he could. Alaren wouldn't pass the chance to do so. Just as Alaren almost killed the party in Barovia, being a seeker of knowledge.
You killed Alaren, I did not mean for him to die, nor was I trying to just be done with Alaren. I worked hard to get the style of Alaren down for myself as I have never really role played that much in my life. I just wanted to be part of the game again, which is why I wanted to introduce my character I had already prepared months prior. If you did not want me to rejoin at the point, you could have politely said to me to wait until the next game, in which I would have accommodated to you.
It is an insult to say that I was just trying to kill my character to play a new one. And I am sorry that you are frustrated with the game, I guess I'll step down from your games unless you want me to rejoin at a later time.
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Post by agroson1 on Sept 9, 2008 9:22:38 GMT -8
Yeah. I was drunk. Wasn't on my game and couldn't remember shit about what had happened last time...let alone how shadowmagick worked...which I was never totally clear on anyhow. The only time I was ever really successful with it was through belief, not sacrifice, and I had it in my head that I was going to 'believe' the ritual.
Regardless, apologies to Gem and Matt.
I won't be playing, nor DMing, from now on if I've had drinks prior to the game starting. It just doesn't seem to work very well.
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Post by vinnytheelf on Sept 9, 2008 14:12:56 GMT -8
Phil, it could be taken as an insult to lie or try to change how things really went. I didn't kill Alaren, You and Gary did.
But now you mention insults.. It could be taken as an insult to a DM when a player casts a ritual that was not on their character sheet after the fact the DM had looked it over and 'approved' it for play, others call that 'cheating' but i let that slide too because I always give people a chance if they made a genuine mistake... but then you said oh I must also have this ritual too, (another one)I forgot to add it.. dude thats just wrong.
The Druid's companion, seen someone attack its master. It almost ripped Alaren's throat out with its initial attack but I decided I would not be harsh on you for 'slapping its master', and so I just had the panther miss and just make you all aware of the dangerous situation Alaren had just created.
In truth the Druid should have told you all to Fuck Off for being dicks(guilt by association).
Saying you meant to do something else after the fact isn't going to cut it with me, too bad man.
Phil your not responsible in any way for me leaving the game, no one is ITS MY decision based on shit some of the other guys are doing. You just came in at the end of my tether and I already said I have no problem with how you played, I tolerated some of it that I found not to my liking for a bit, but I am already at the end, don't see this as a personal attack its not.
Which brings me to a comment in game made about the injured Angel. The wing was never broken I never said it was. I said it was bruised and injured. "Oh a broken wing repairs overnight *eye roll*" Yes it can repair in an instant actually, why 'you know who you are' would make such a snide remark I really dunno because they are playing in a 'fantasy world' where miraculous things happen all the time.
But go ahead guys keep the flames coming.
I said what I did about you guys because I respected you all enough to let you know why I am quitting the game, and none of it was in malice. If you cannot accept the truth then tough. If the ones mentioned hadn't have ruined the game consistently maybe it would still be running, because if I put all the effort into planning, creating, time and energy to entertain a group then you better respect that and at the least try to enjoy it and not bring it down just because you had a bad day or are pissed off at one thing or another.
Maybe one day you will understand the word respect, maybe you will understand that its all about having fun, but never at someone elses expense, until then
Happy Gaming.... I know I am.
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Post by reiphil on Sept 9, 2008 14:31:48 GMT -8
Phil, I didn't kill Alaren, You and Gary did. Rolling a 17 on a will save probably wasn't high enough, I guess. Role playing my character got me killed, I guess. You placing my character into the ritual circle killed my character I guess (since assisting in a ritual only requires me to be within 5 squares of the caster). I'm sorry I feel a bit bitter for playing my character correctly and dying for it, then wanting to join your game and be part of the group with the original character i was going to bring to Eberron. But now you mention insults.. It could be taken as an insult to a DM when a player casts a ritual that was not on their character sheet after the fact the DM had looked it over and 'approved' it for play, others call that 'cheating' but i let that slide too because I always give people a chance if they made a genuine mistake... but then you said oh I must also have this ritual too, (another one)I forgot to add it.. dude thats just wrong. I messed up during our first game and thought i had written the sending ritual down in my ritual book. You allowed me to write that in. You also then allowed me to buy a linked portal ritual(I remember this because we were waiting for the boat to come and you gave me 3 days to learn the ritual). Those were the only two rituals I did not have. In general, you gave me enough gold to buy every ritual in the whole game, yet I did not feel as though my character would know every single one that he could, even though he would want to. Forgive me for forgetting to write down a basic ritual. I know that I messed up during that session. Since then I have kept my notes a lot more organized and neater to prevent such things. I am sorry that I insulted you that way. You should have told me, and I would have just erased it and forgotten I had ever casted it during the barovia encounters. Saying you meant to do something else after the fact isn't going to cut it with me, too bad man. I said, quite specifically: "I walk up to the druid, and slap him in the face, saying snap out of it" and as soon as i said that you told me to roll an attack. Maybe one day you will understand the word respect, maybe you will understand that its all about having fun, but never at someone elses expense, until then Happy Gaming.... I know I am. Maybe i misunderstood your post above, but I feel as though you were also calling me out as a person who disrespected you. I don't know if it is just my play style, but I am sorry if I did somehow offend you. I loved the fantasy world that you created, and loved being part of it. I hope you continue you gaming with us even if you are not DMing. Also, I hope that if you do continue to DM, then I hope you will also respect the players as well. I know it is not my place to say as I am a new player myself, but I feel that if you are irked to this point you should have brought up this point during the game. I would have completely respected you if you told me that there was no viable way for me to continue gaming that day with any character I made. I would have completely respected you if you took me aside and asked me to stop doing something if it were bothering you. I think the same goes for every other player. We are all respectable people and will give you the same respect you deserve. Hope to continue gaming with you. |
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Post by vinnytheelf on Sept 9, 2008 15:33:20 GMT -8
Phil, I didn't kill Alaren, You and Gary did. Rolling a 17 on a will save probably wasn't high enough, I guess. Role playing my character got me killed, I guess. You placing my character into the ritual circle killed my character I guess (since assisting in a ritual only requires me to be within 5 squares of the caster). I'm sorry I feel a bit bitter for playing my character correctly and dying for it, then wanting to join your game and be part of the group with the original character i was going to bring to Eberron. I messed up during our first game and thought i had written the sending ritual down in my ritual book. You allowed me to write that in. You also then allowed me to buy a linked portal ritual(I remember this because we were waiting for the boat to come and you gave me 3 days to learn the ritual). Those were the only two rituals I did not have. In general, you gave me enough gold to buy every ritual in the whole game, yet I did not feel as though my character would know every single one that he could, even though he would want to. Forgive me for forgetting to write down a basic ritual. I know that I messed up during that session. Since then I have kept my notes a lot more organized and neater to prevent such things. I am sorry that I insulted you that way. You should have told me, and I would have just erased it and forgotten I had ever casted it during the barovia encounters. I said, quite specifically: "I walk up to the druid, and slap him in the face, saying snap out of it" and as soon as i said that you told me to roll an attack. Maybe one day you will understand the word respect, maybe you will understand that its all about having fun, but never at someone elses expense, until then Happy Gaming.... I know I am. Maybe i misunderstood your post above, but I feel as though you were also calling me out as a person who disrespected you. I don't know if it is just my play style, but I am sorry if I did somehow offend you. I loved the fantasy world that you created, and loved being part of it. I hope you continue you gaming with us even if you are not DMing. Also, I hope that if you do continue to DM, then I hope you will also respect the players as well. I know it is not my place to say as I am a new player myself, but I feel that if you are irked to this point you should have brought up this point during the game. I would have completely respected you if you told me that there was no viable way for me to continue gaming that day with any character I made. I would have completely respected you if you took me aside and asked me to stop doing something if it were bothering you. I think the same goes for every other player. We are all respectable people and will give you the same respect you deserve. Hope to continue gaming with you. Look your recreating the whole thing again. Regardless of what the rules say in the book on assisting. You said you would help Les by using your arcane energies to shape the spell. That spell draws 2 sources of soul killing both if one is not the caster(yes caster can use part of own soul, but needs at least one other and creates one new spirit like being a Shadow Servant. Its not in the rules it was typed and given and verbally given to those who played the Shadowmagick classes previously. I said, 'roll initiative', vs the Druid not make an attack. I informed you of the Panther that was leaping out to attack you.. its simple to work out. Your at a Zoo, your visiting a Druid who is the Zoo Keeper....your actions as Alaren were not in character he had never done something so disrespectful to anyone in the... few sessions you played. so it was odd but I let it slide and chastise by keeping it in game, NOT taking someone to the side wasting everyone else time by repremands or letting a player know they did something I consider wrong. I keep it all 'in game'. When I realised Gary had wasted far too much time with his shadow servant I told him to stop it. When Kyle pissed me off I told EVERYONE "Kyle has pissed me off so Hal is shutting up'. So where you think I should be doing more to let people know I am tired of their antics I really dunno, because I am telling people. I let the ritual you forgot go because A I thought your ok and B Gary liked you and C its not a BIG thing, but I do record these things in my memory and they all add up to form my opinion of how a player plays the game eventually. Like I said with Joseph he started off slow and queit but eventually has BURST onto the game table as this really great player..sometimes. Will save: Unfortunately Les also rolled a 17 and matched your roll, you need to roll higher than his roll otherwise Alaren came under Les' control. Les chose to continue the ceremony after I asked him if he wished to continue and after I then warned him "You know what will happen next?" He did so etc etc. You can say whatever you want to me at any time, I am not gonna try to force anyone to shut up and be silent. However I DO tell people to stop doing things I dont like, I DO let people know when t hey cross the line. I also choose sometimes to not to tell people exactly what i think about them for my own reasons and I in general I do let people get away with a lot of stuff because for the most part it doesnt bother me and this is a game and should not be taken too seriously. I am very tolerant of other people, I fully understand we all have different 'levels of experience' in life and social interaction. But I will let people know when its affecting everyone esle, uh yeah that is what I am doing now in this post rather than shit on you all after the game I go home and think things through and try to see if I am upset by something else and just work out why I come home from the game with a Headache(1st time that has happened). Anyway ultimately if I cannot have fun, then I am not going to put the effort into the game and running it for others to have their fun at my expense. I see you infer I deserve the respect I earned from you. Whatever that is, I don't care its a game dude and I am done with the game for now. I keep all this stuff in game, now theres no game I am done having to deal with disruptive players. Phil you seem like a cool guy, sorry if you felt I offended you but sometimes the truth hurts people ego's, but thats not my intent. I am giving you guys info on whats going on inside my head and what I am seeing from DM and oustide the table perspective. If no one understands or cares then I made the right choice to leave. Sometimes these guys make me laugh, lately its been not so funny, someone stole all the fun. I may be to blame I dunno, all I know is Gary Gygax said if it ain't fun then stop doing it, I agree totally with that. |
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Post by vinnytheelf on Sept 9, 2008 15:37:57 GMT -8
p.s. Gary your the Biggest Wanker I have ever met.  |
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Post by vinnytheelf on Sept 9, 2008 15:39:53 GMT -8
p.p.s.  |
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Post by reiphil on Sept 9, 2008 16:49:21 GMT -8
btw, you did say roll an attack, and i rolled a 12.
Then the panther came out and we started initiatives.
Anyway. all is said and done. I still love you and your teabagging ways.
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Post by vinnytheelf on Sept 9, 2008 17:27:51 GMT -8
btw, you did say roll an attack, and i rolled a 12. Then the panther came out and we started initiatives. Anyway. all is said and done. I still love you and your teabagging ways. Ah yes, your right I did say roll an attack when you said you slapped him. That was a combat type action. You roll your slap and see if it hit or not. It was totally unexpected, he was dumbfounded by seeing an Angel outside his door, so you got the jump on him, albeit the surprise attack. (Anytime you try to effect adversely or influence or interefere with an NPC or Monster there's generally a roll involved.) |
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Post by Joseph Barros on Sept 9, 2008 17:36:51 GMT -8
This seems kinda sudden. Kinda wish the calling out of individuals was left to more private means of communication. I can see you have a number of valid points, but I can also see a few things mentioned being the result of miscommunication between you and some of the named players. I have a terrible feeling some bridges might get burned today that didn't need to be...
As for Matt and Jem I don't think its fair for you to speak for them concerning their lack of interest. They were coming smack into the middle of months of lore and storytelling they had no clue about. And the balance of story vs. action sequences was very much in favor of story which is hard for a new player to come into. (And when I say new I don't mean new to the game, I mean new to the current plot.)
I will also say 8 players is too much. Dune is the perfect example. I know it annoyed Gary to lose certain key houses, but I felt that his games went much smoother and with more opportunity for all to get involved when the average size dropped to 6 or less. Kyle certainly has his strengths and weaknesses as a DM, but one thing he for sure got right is his strict adherence to a hard cap of 6 players. As a result the only games of his I've played in that got slowed down to a crawl were at my place when Gary and I get drunk and start dominating the conversations. On an occasion like last sunday when we had some guest players from out of town pushing the number over 6, I think it might have been better to write more combat into that session, so that those not up on the specifics of the current storyline don't feel as left out. Or if not combat then write something specifically for them that guarantees they don't get lost in the plot. Yeah I know its extra work, but if you cram extra people into a game built for a smaller group, someone is always gonna get left out of a lot.
Again, not saying that we all don't have things we could work on, but I haven't played in many games with more than 6 that I didn't walk away from a bit exhausted and somewhat confused. Just a trend I've noticed not only from playing games with this group, but the group prior as well.
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Post by agroson1 on Sept 9, 2008 19:44:46 GMT -8
Wow. Bad vibes. Not like this group at all. Let's all light some incense and mellow out. KUMBAYA!!! And yes, this was written sober...heh.  |
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Post by Grim04 on Sept 9, 2008 20:00:37 GMT -8
Wow. Bad vibes. Not like this group at all. Let's all light some incense and mellow out. KUMBAYA!!! And yes, this was written sober...heh. ... I like Gary drunk if he's going to start talking like this. I liked the game, the only thing that seemed to take a bit long was the shadow servant. I haven't been in the past sessions (9 months... I know, but I hope to be there Thursday)... so I can't comment on much more. Maybe I'll make a standard class or something in Vince's next game (to the shock and awe of others)? I enjoyed the story since it ties in all my previous characters into horrible villain stories... muahahahaha... PS. Vince is british. |
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Post by vinnytheelf on Sept 9, 2008 23:52:44 GMT -8
Wow. Bad vibes. Not like this group at all. Let's all light some incense and mellow out. KUMBAYA!!! And yes, this was written sober...heh. ... I like Gary drunk if he's going to start talking like this. I liked the game, the only thing that seemed to take a bit long was the shadow servant. I haven't been in the past sessions (9 months... I know, but I hope to be there Thursday)... so I can't comment on much more. Maybe I'll make a standard class or something in Vince's next game (to the shock and awe of others)? I enjoyed the story since it ties in all my previous characters into horrible villain stories... muahahahaha... PS. Vince is british. My next game? Well I still have unfinished business a s a DM but its going to be a few months at least and I may try something different.. like a different format.. hmmm D&D insider? Who knows. I think basically Gary screwed up the whole game and Kyle and Phil get tarred along with him just because. Some shit just needs to get aired in a group therapy session, when do we all hug?...... I am not the one wearing a backless gown.. hehehehehe |
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Post by vinnytheelf on Sept 10, 2008 0:21:52 GMT -8
Burning Bridges... Ok lets address that point.
In the past I have been diplomatic, stroked feeble egos gently and plainly asked people nicely to behave. It never works.
Everyone at the table is supposed to be respectful enough to know that the DM puts in more time and effort and the game should not be should not be dicked about with constantly or even regulary at the expense of other players.
I came to the end of my tether and those who know me should have known I can be scathing in my reviews, I have done this before when the antics of some players get in the way of the Fun factor.
Asking me to be nice and take you to one side or be more diplomatic is just dumb because it is like saying to the Cop please dont be so harsh on me for speeding Officer I didnt know the speed limit.
If you persist in giving me your shit am going to get tired of it and eventually I am going to scoop it up and throw it right in yer face, while everyone is looking. That is the person I am. If anyone doesnt like that then well you can do as tyou will.
The people who have real respect for me and care about the game and are on the same page as me, will take it on the nose and say fair do's.
Also the peeps that stay and weather the flak I dish out show they got balls and will be better friends for it. At least they really will know what I think of them and not run away their ego's or feelings hurt at my defending my game and day off work spent laboring for their entertainment.
I only give out what I expect in return so fire away if you got anything you want to offload on me.
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