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Post by Joseph Barros on Jan 2, 2010 12:03:25 GMT -8
David, JP, and Stephen go ahead and score a Hero Point for the low gas thing. I wasn't thinking "GM Fiat" at the time, but in retrospect it kinda was.
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Post by frobones on Jan 3, 2010 0:53:17 GMT -8
Just read something very interesting for those of you with Total Concealment - more notably JP with perma-total concealment. Apparently on page 163, first bullet of surprise attack, if a target has total concealment all of his attacks are considered surprise attacks. This means always ignoring Dodge bonus (at least half of their defense) and they suffer an additional -2 Defense (all of this is negated by the Uncanny Dodge Feat). Soooo, this mean Tochi should NOT be missing... ever.
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Post by reiphil on Jan 3, 2010 9:15:13 GMT -8
oh i knew that day 1, stephen. which is why i decimated everyone on a roll of 4 for attacks. lulz.
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Post by The Keeper on Jan 3, 2010 9:37:34 GMT -8
Just read something very interesting for those of you with Total Concealment - more notably JP with perma-total concealment. Apparently on page 163, first bullet of surprise attack, if a target has total concealment all of his attacks are considered surprise attacks. This means always ignoring Dodge bonus (at least half of their defense) and they suffer an additional -2 Defense (all of this is negated by the Uncanny Dodge Feat). Soooo, this mean Tochi should NOT be missing... ever. that seems VERY important for me to know. thanks stephen!
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Post by frobones on Jan 3, 2010 23:17:18 GMT -8
Was bored... here's a Combat Flowchart Damage: Knockback:
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Post by The Keeper on Jan 4, 2010 13:00:11 GMT -8
u have too much time on ur hands stephen...but i'm glad for it lol
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Post by reiphil on Jan 4, 2010 15:03:48 GMT -8
your if/else logic is wrong. if target fails includes all pre requisites already. So if i fail by 15 or more, i am just bruised. lawl.
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Post by frobones on Jan 4, 2010 15:23:11 GMT -8
Go complain to Green Ronin then, it's what they have in the Core Rules. Valid point nonetheless, but I prefer consistency with already written rules. Discrepancies only makes matters worse.
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Post by frobones on Jan 10, 2010 14:34:48 GMT -8
If I were to make a devicer for my next hero with all kinds of high-tech sci-fi gizmos... what sort of explanation for said devices would you be most comfortable with in your Paragon world: - Superhuman intellect
- Reversed engineered alien technology
- Martian visiting Earth
- Trans-dimentional being
- Time Traveler stuck in the past
- Other?
Or are all of these OK?
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Post by Joseph Barros on Jan 11, 2010 14:48:52 GMT -8
I don't know yet. Don't get too deep into a new character just yet. I'm actually thinking if we do PL 10 we might just do a golden age type universe where we can get a little silly with things. I think for Paragons I kinda like low level. In fact what does everybody think about hitting power level 8 and then retiring the current characters? This game just doesn't lend all that well to extremely long campaigns like going 1-30 in DnD. At least it doesn't if you want to keep the RP element believable.
Think of it like this, instead of doing an ongoing series, how bout a bunch of different limited series or graphic novels even.
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Post by frobones on Jan 11, 2010 14:56:36 GMT -8
This game just doesn't lend all that well to extremely long campaigns like going 1-30 in DnD. At least it doesn't if you want to keep the RP element believable. Isn't that akin to saying Heroes should only last a season (which it probably should have), but that's besides the point. Heroes has continued this long, we could make something work. We can do a spin-off of the Marvel Mutant Registration act as we transition to higher PLs or perhaps powers go public and the world has to deal with it, etc. I don't mind either way, as PL 8 seems to be a ways off if we do sessions every other week getting 1PP per gathering. *Math calculation mode... every other week = 2PP per month -> 15 months to hit 30PP and PL8... grand total = Long time* Anyways... like I said I'm up for both options, but I have a nagging feeling that we may lose some RP element, and probably gain a different kind of RP, by going Golden Age. It would definitely put more emphasis on powers, possibly drawing out the power gamer to show its ugly face.
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Post by mrdent12 on Jan 12, 2010 13:16:46 GMT -8
I am cool with retiring the current characters at pl8, but on the same token there is a lot of potential for the current set of characters like Stephen brought up. Right now the world probably has a good idea that people have some sort of super powers from the bridge incident. Unless the cameras turned off or were blocked somehow, people probably saw a cement truck being thrown and people teleporting everywhere. If we do keep the current characters past pl8 it would introduce some interesting roleplay to explain how we got more powerful.
Playing a pl10 character in a golden age setting seems fun as well. The new setting would allow for some more fantasy elements than paragons allows. I don't know the setting that well, but there is probably some really interesting things going on in it.
In the end, I don't mind either way. It might even be interesting to switch between the two once we have a better grip of the overall game.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Jan 12, 2010 16:53:55 GMT -8
Heroes isn't a good comparison, because those characters do not progress in power level much if at all. You can only improve upon your current stuff so much, before the power points start to stockpile. Not to mention, the numbers your powers do have will start to become quite huge. In most shows and comics improvement comes in the form of more creative uses of what they have, rather than an actual increase in power. Spider-man, for example is definitely a better fighter than when he was a kid, but all his powers are pretty much operating at the same level they were 40 years ago. Furthermore, I don't want to write a story about how street level characters eventually gain the power to destroy planets. (Pl 15) Maybe as a one shot type deal like the Cosmic Power Spidey story, but just imagine if Spidey had kept that power. It would be a VERY different comic!
The problem in an RPG game is that it is not entirely story driven... there is the mechanical portion to deal with as well. In Heroes if a character never gets new powers or even ever gets better, that's totally fine, because if the character is interesting that's all that matters. In an RPG most players want to see some form of advancement... something writers of a TV show or comic book don't have to worry about. Improving a couple power levels is fine, but going from PL 6 to PL 10 even is a massive power increase, that will become increasingly more difficult to explain. I don't mind Nathan being able to smash a bugbot, but the day he starts smashing tanks with his fists... I don't want everyone just adding things and saying "science did it."
I know this is probably much more restrictive compared to DnD, but in addition to making it more enjoyable for me to GM I think it will be more fun for you, because it will make it that much more different of an experience from DnD. I might be wrong, but I think the most fun we've had with M&M has been with the elements that separate it from DnD.
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Post by reiphil on Jan 12, 2010 17:41:08 GMT -8
As the GM though you could always throw some really cool things at us that you would allow us to spend powerpoints on.
One way to look at it is that at power level 7, you might a lot us 5 points to spent on saves or some points to do attack/defense bonus. Which might show us becoming more acute and perceptive with our powers.
Another is that you sort of keep track of how many power points we have stock piled and throw us into story lines that might evolve, add, or change our powers, or give us the ability to exchange, change, add powers.
For example, Psylocke - started with Telepathy only. Trained to be a kung fu master. Got Psi-Knife. Began to be able to teleport through shadows after a fight with the shadow king. But having to hold shadow king into his prison, lost the ability to use telepathy. After merging with... i forget who, she gets telekinesis. Eventually gets telekinetic blade... etc.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Jan 12, 2010 20:30:30 GMT -8
That happened to Psylocke... not the entire X-men team. That's the problem. I don't want to be trapped into having to at some point always have to tell the story of how an entire team of heroes goes from low power to cosmic power. Plus, what you describe for Pyslocke probably only added a couple power levels and then stopped since then. She didn't continuously grow in power until the point where she was taking on Thor and the Silver Surfer solo. Letting you guys go from 6 to eventually 15 is going to take a HELL of a lot more explanation than that. I'm not even sure if such a transformation has happened in any comic.
Again, its not that it can't be done, it's about my desire to. If we are going to be changing or exchanging powers, why not just make new characters? Plus I want to play a game where the emphasis on advancement is minimized for once. I don't want to be forced to think "ok they are advancing yet another power level, have to put the story I want to run on hold so I can justify yet another jump in power." I think of that mode of play to be an example of a campaign that can be run, but does not have to be.
Adding points to saves and attack/bonus doesn't really address any of my concerns: at some point they become cosmically powered as well as you level up. It gets kinda boring if everyone is invincible.
I know you guys love character building and stuff like that a lot. I also would like to experiment with the game as well. However, I don't want to be pigeonholed into telling variations of the same story over and over. I also want to try to play an RPG sans the traditional style of beat bad guy, earn XP, power up. We can do that in DnD. Do you have to have a character that levels up to max to enjoy the game?
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