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Post by Joseph Barros on Feb 22, 2010 20:44:46 GMT -8
Silas Dubachier (Doo-bah-shee-ay) Identity: Private ID APPEARANCE Gender: Male Age: 22 Size: Medium Height: 5'9" Weight: 160 Hair: Short, spiky, brown Eyes: Hazel POWER LEVEL Power Level: 10 Power Points: 150 Max Attack: 10 Max Defense: 10 Max Save DC: 10 Max Toughness: 10 ABILITIES STR: 10 (+0) DEX: 10 (+0) CON: 17 (+3) INT: 11 (+0) WIS: 17 (+3) CHA: 17 (+3) COMBAT Attack 10 (Melee 10, Ranged 10) [Unarmed +0 (Bruise)] Defense 6 (3 flat-footed) SAVES Toughness 3 (3 flat-footed) Fortitude 7 Reflex 3 Will 12 SKILLS Bluff 4 (+7) Climb (+0) Concentration (+3) Diplomacy 4 (+7) Disguise (+3) Drive 2 (+2) Escape Artist (+0) Gather Info 4 (+7) Handle Animal (+3) Intimidate 2 (+5) Investigate 2 (+2) Notice 4 (+7) Profession (professional gambling world) 6 (+9) Search (+0) Sense Motive 4 (+7) Sleight of Hand 4 (+4) Stealth (+0) Survival (+3) Swim (+0) LANGUAGES FEATS Favored Environment: Crowded/limited movement areas. (1) Equipment (1) Beginner's Luck Eidetic Memory Luck (2) POWERS POWER[10] Absorption (Physical, Boost Strike, Extras: Energy Storage) POWER[2] Super Speed ( Power Feats: Linked to Absorption Rapid Attack; Flaws: Limited) Alternate Power: Force Field 8 ( Flaws: Concentration; Extras: Impervious ) POWER[3] Super Strength ( Power Feats: Linked to Absorption; Flaws: Limited) DRAWBACKS SUMMARY Abilities 22 + Skills 10 (40 ranks) + Feats 6 + Powers 64 + Combat 32 + Saves 16 – Drawbacks 0 = 150 / 150 BACKGROUND Under construction PERSONALITY A very likeable indvidual. Makes friends easily. Doesn't keep them easily, however. He's secretly a huge douchebag, despite his generally amazing luck... TACTICS Piss someone off in crowded bar or card hall, get punched in the face (hopefully repeatedly), whoop ass. Fire up the force field, plan escape route, and run if things get out of hand.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Feb 22, 2010 21:07:59 GMT -8
Here's an example of the kind of superheroes I like to see and play. I chose a template (energy controller) and stuck to it without deviation. It forced me to get a bit more creative in areas I was limited in (feats and skills) as well as areas I had lots of room in. (powers)
The two limited powers are limited in that they only work if he's got the energy stored up from getting hit. Normally he doesn't have them. I guess I could throw in a drawback or complication saying he can't absorb self-created power i.e. can't bash his head against the wall so he can lift a car. He's Strong Guy with the ability to forgo his strength and speed for a force field. The force field is impervious but can be chipped away at in addition to the fact that it is fueled by his absorbed energy which also fades whether it is being pressed upon or not. He doesn't maintain any power while he isn't charged up. For obvious reasons, he also doesn't store up power while force fielded up. If the way I wrote it doesn't reflect that, let me know so I can do it properly. I wanted him to have an alternate focus for his power that was strong, but very flawed. An impervious shield that can be waited or punched out felt fun.
One thing I need to ponder upon is what physical energy means. Obviously getting hit works. Technically, bullets and knives would also count, but that's not how imagined the character initially and I don't want to give him resistance to those things as well just because the power that fits my concept just happens to grant it. If there isn't a flaw or drawback to fit, I'll probably just say only kinetic energy affects me, even if I don't get a PP discount for doing so... being able to shrug off bullets doesn't fit the concept. I'm building a fun and awesome to play character, not Superman lite. I expect to lose on occasion, due to my lack of across the board uberness, but figure as long as I don't die, fun will be had by all! Unless my shenanigans get someone else killed... which still might be fun!
This is an example of a character that quite clearly can be a wrecking ball in a lot of situations, but quite unimpressive in others. I started with a personality concept and built the powers around that concept. I especially had fun with the feats. I will be adding some interesting complications. I'm sure some of you will point out areas where I could be more efficient with my power points. I don't want to hear it. This character does exactly what I want him to do. I don't want to "upgrade" him just because I can.
Some of the numbers will make more sense as I write up his backstory. He's gonna be like many of my characters; a great asset and a great liability. This one isn't going to be evil, just disappointing. I'm borrowing heavily from Cassidy from "Preacher." I will likely make Gary proud with this one.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Feb 22, 2010 23:52:15 GMT -8
Another thing I did with each power, feat, and skill selection is I asked myself "what does this selection do to make my character interesting?" If any specific power, feat, or skill didn't directly contribute to the character and story I was writing, I was not going to use it. This is actually why I'm still a little on the fence with the force field. Having something really flashy seemed really cool, but does it really fit the character? It definitely fits his recklessness by contributing to his sense of invulnerability, but on the other hand do I really envision him with such a visible power? Plus is it overkill? He's got a movement power, a solid defense power and a solid attack power already. I'm thinking I might replace force field with something with a bit more utility. For example, luck control seems like a good fit, but I don't think I want him having that kind of control over his life and the lives of others. At least not via supernatural means.
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Post by frobones on Feb 23, 2010 1:47:43 GMT -8
If you only want him to absorb things like getting punched or hit with a baseball bat, Absorption would take the Limited Flaw they list with the power and say something like "Blunt Kinetic energy". This would include fists, random thrown objects, etc and exclude things like piercing bullets and knife stabs/slashes. It mechanical makes your character do what you want him to and nets you an additional 20PP to spend. I agree that only External Blunt Kinetic force (anything not self-produced) would be considered a Drawback, maybe a -1pp or -2pp penalty.
If you want the Force Field effect to be able to be chipped away by damage, you may want to look at the Ablative Flaw they have listed with the power. Also, if you don't want the force field to be a visible manifestation, you can take the Subtle Feat to make it invisible.
Oh, try taking a crack at making a PL 6 hero, or even toning this one down. I think the experience is way difference; having an extra 60pp is a lot to flesh out the non-power/Combat aspects of the hero.
As for choosing a template, I feel dirty doing that. The reason I like M&M is to get away from the class/template aspect of D&D. Instead of using a template as a guideline, I say the only guide one needs is the RP skills to relate the Powers he/she chooses to the hero's RP power source; like my glass bending hero concept for example. All the powers I have listed can be explained in RP on why I have them.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Feb 23, 2010 16:49:05 GMT -8
Oops. I did have ablative. I must have accidentally deleted it in the crossover. Good idea on the subtle feat, but that's not quite what I meant. If I'm gonna have a force field I am gonna keep it visible. It's whether I want the power at all, visible or not, that I'm unsure about.
Making this guy PL 6 would be easy. Lower the numbers. He's fairly focused in a couple areas so lowering his numbers on what he already has would take care of most of that. maybe lose a feat or two. Lower some of his stats. It would be more of a challenge if I had tried to make a superman character with lots of different powers and feats and extras to go with them. Since the next new campaign will be level 10 I am giving an example of a solid character that is still quite good, but not min/maxed trying to make him as prepared as possible for all negative outcomes. There is a lot of ways this guy can get fucked up if he isn't careful, and yet he can still do some serious damage himself. That's what I'd like to see more of. The 20 PP is gonna be challenging to spend. I'm sure I could find other cool powers to make him tougher or deadlier and I'm sure I could come up with RP reasons for them. What I am going to have to do is ask myself and answer honestly, "am I spending these points and then RPing a reason for them?" If the answer is yes, then I am not being true to my concept. When a comic writer comes up with a new character he doesn't add powers and abilities just because he can. He comes up with a concept and sticks with it flaws and all. Often it's the flaws that make the character interesting much more than its strengths. That doesn't mean make a character that sucks, just means I am doing my best to ignore powering up for the sake of powering up. My ability to "RP" in more stuff is irrelevant; I'm a pretty smart cookie. I could give him six arms and "RP" a convincing reason why, but I know when I first thought of him I was thinking no such thing, and I'm not about to now just because I have 20 PP to spend. Hell I might even just let them drop, if I feel my concept is complete without them.
If you feel dirty doing it you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Yes it is good for beginners, but I think it is also good for advanced players who maybe need some help keeping their character a bit more focused. The templates are a far cry from DnD character creation. For example it would be very difficult to make a fighter that does a lot of healing. There is not one template that would prevent you from doing that, because it's giving you guidlines for how you should spread your points, but not on what your actual points will get you. I.E. you will never see DPR arguments on the forums comparing Energy Controller Template vs. Paragon Template.
I think I might just make a PL 6 character too, just to experience it as you say. Also to present a loose guideline as to how your next character might be built should your current character die, though that is unlikely.
I'll go ahead and let the rabbit out of the hat and say that I want to avoid character deaths, unless they would be of the epic heroic variety. I'm hoping that, combined with your experiences playing the game, will encourage a little more focus on developing a true concept as opposed to the most deadly and/or impervious to harm instrument possible and then retroactively "RPing" why it's all there, which everyone did to differing degrees. I want the heroes to recognize that every single time they enter a fight there is a real possibility they might die or suffere severe injury. In DND when we just slobberknock the shit out of every combat with zero challenge, it's funny for the first couple rounds and then gets boring. I hate when every fight is up up down down left right left right BABA select start win. Not that in M&M I plan to have an abundance of fights. Which is even more incentive to not worry so much about offensive/defensive power, and more about what would be just plain cool. Bullets bouncing off your chest is very powerful, but also completely uninteresting. Taking the spinning power and using it to rapid attack with shurikens is interesting! Probably not a very efficient use of powers compared to other offensive options, but it wouldn't be boring!
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Post by frobones on Feb 23, 2010 18:16:15 GMT -8
I completely understand the idea you are trying to relay, but all what you are saying can be viewed relatively. In one player's eyes, a choice in a power can be viewed as "powering up for the sake of powering up"; while another player may view it as a crucial concept to the design. Some things will be clear cut on power gaming, but others will often lie in the gray area of opinion. But as you are the GM, you are the final arbiter on what flies.
Your message is clear: Don't power game; but I don't know if covering your bases is considered powergaming in M&M, as there are much more deadlier things one can do with the options available to them.
I do agree with you that flaws are what makes a Hero great, but having your bases covered doesn't mean you have no weaknesses. It might help if you be a little blunt and dissect our current builds and say what you might consider is power gaming. This way, we can get a feel of what you consider power gaming and build heroes a little more to your world tolerance.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Feb 24, 2010 12:33:17 GMT -8
What I've been trying to say is while making your character, "Do I have all my bases covered?" should never be a question that you ask. It should be completely irrelevant to making a character concept. Trying to cover all your bases to the maximum degree is most of what powergaming is all about. Having your bases covered of course doesn't mean you have no weaknesses, but having only one or two small weaknesses isn't much better.
The example I'm trying to set is going to mostly be an honor system. I'm going to trust that everyone is honestly putting RP first. However, that doesn't mean everything will fly. For example, if I did it over, I think the one thing about Yulis that I wouldn't allow is the feat that effectively makes you immortal; you die, you just transfer consciousness. Did you really have that in mind before you started putting the pieces together or did you see it and decide "oh yeah! I'm taking that so I don't have to worry about dying!" Whatever your answer I will believe, but it's that kind of stuff I want to avoid. Does Yulis have weaknesses? Yes. Are they mostly made trivial by his pseudo-immortality? Yes. Actually to be really specific, it's the combination of great wealth and immortality that makes him so strong. He can do anything and fear nothing. I'm going to try and avoid that in the future. Mechanically my favorite of all the characters is David's character. I kinda hate the x-ray vision, but a mass teleporting kung-fu badass is pretty solid. He can dish out all kinds of whoop ass, but as he saw on the Bridge, if he isn't careful he can and will get rubbed out. As a result his encounters are never going to be boring, especially if he is out of hero points.
As I stated before anything and everything can be explained with a story or RP. The goal should be to have the "RP", the character concept, complete before the mechanics are even started. Again this is honor system stuff because of course I can't judge whether anyone honestly and truly stuck to that guideline. I'm not going to try. But I will be monitoring "having all your bases covered." If you think you have all your bases covered, you can pretty much expect to get hit with the nerf hammer. This is not limiting creativity. It encourages it. The only thing being limited is over all power.
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Post by Joseph Barros on Feb 24, 2010 13:37:34 GMT -8
Oh and it's not my specific world I am worried about. It is the game period. This game is an unbalanced version of DnD 3.5 rules which was an ubalanced system to begin with. I kinda like how I've only had a couple encounters per session. Makes the game feel less arenaish. However, it makes it just that much more vital that powergaming doesn't make them trival speed bumps in between story events. I want the combat itself to be a story event, not just a pause in the story while numbers are crunched like an old school video game RPG.
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